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	<title>Comments for Discerning Church</title>
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	<link>http://www.discerningchurch.org</link>
	<description>thoughts on how churches discern</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 13 Jul 2011 20:12:07 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Drafting a Process by Listening &#124; Discerning Church</title>
		<link>http://www.discerningchurch.org/drafting-a-process/#comment-129</link>
		<dc:creator>Listening &#124; Discerning Church</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jul 2011 20:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningchurch.org/drafting-a-process/#comment-129</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] to us. Thirdly, we examine ourselves by checking our tendencies; you can read more about this in another post. The decision is made following the third stage. Finally, the fourth stage is communicating; we [...]&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to us. Thirdly, we examine ourselves by checking our tendencies; you can read more about this in another post. The decision is made following the third stage. Finally, the fourth stage is communicating; we [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Being Wrong by Wade Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.discerningchurch.org/being-wrong/#comment-121</link>
		<dc:creator>Wade Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2011 15:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningchurch.org/being-wrong/#comment-121</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for taking the time to engage this post. I really appreciate the dialogue. Engaging the culture is what we are called to do as Christians. Have a great day!
Wade&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for taking the time to engage this post. I really appreciate the dialogue. Engaging the culture is what we are called to do as Christians. Have a great day!
Wade</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Being Wrong by Evan Posey</title>
		<link>http://www.discerningchurch.org/being-wrong/#comment-120</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Posey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2011 15:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningchurch.org/being-wrong/#comment-120</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yea, me too.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Don&#039;t get me wrong.  I absolute agree with your conclusions.  That is the exact reason why I addressed Schulz from a philosophical perspective.  From Schulz&#039;s perspective, even your claim, &quot;A continual posture of humility is appropriate for Christians&quot; could be potentially wrong.  The question for the Christian is then, If Schulz is correct, where do we draw the line?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It appears, upon first glance, that Schulz&#039;s assessment of truth is incompatible with a Christian worldview.  That is not to say that she has nothing of value to offer, which you address.  However, I am attempting to engage the philosophical undercurrent of her thoughts.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Things are going well.  The girls are growing like weeds, which I know you are all too familiar with.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Blessings,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Ev&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yea, me too.</p>

<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong.  I absolute agree with your conclusions.  That is the exact reason why I addressed Schulz from a philosophical perspective.  From Schulz&#8217;s perspective, even your claim, &#8220;A continual posture of humility is appropriate for Christians&#8221; could be potentially wrong.  The question for the Christian is then, If Schulz is correct, where do we draw the line?</p>

<p>It appears, upon first glance, that Schulz&#8217;s assessment of truth is incompatible with a Christian worldview.  That is not to say that she has nothing of value to offer, which you address.  However, I am attempting to engage the philosophical undercurrent of her thoughts.</p>

<p>Things are going well.  The girls are growing like weeds, which I know you are all too familiar with.</p>

<p>Blessings,</p>

<p>Ev</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Being Wrong by Wade Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.discerningchurch.org/being-wrong/#comment-119</link>
		<dc:creator>Wade Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2011 14:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningchurch.org/being-wrong/#comment-119</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree that truth is objective. I also agree that we can know truth. My point is that we could use a dose of humility at times. I also think, as we follow the Spirit, we should continually seek, continually ask God to reveal truth to us.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Too often, Christians act and respond as if they have it all figured out. The older I get, the more I realize that I have made mistakes in the past.  All the while, I thought I was in the &quot;right&quot;.  A continual posture of humility is appropriate for Christians.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Thanks for taking the time to respond to this. This makes for great discussion.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Hope you are doing well.  Miss hanging out with you!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Wade&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that truth is objective. I also agree that we can know truth. My point is that we could use a dose of humility at times. I also think, as we follow the Spirit, we should continually seek, continually ask God to reveal truth to us.</p>

<p>Too often, Christians act and respond as if they have it all figured out. The older I get, the more I realize that I have made mistakes in the past.  All the while, I thought I was in the &#8220;right&#8221;.  A continual posture of humility is appropriate for Christians.</p>

<p>Thanks for taking the time to respond to this. This makes for great discussion.</p>

<p>Hope you are doing well.  Miss hanging out with you!</p>

<p>Wade</p>]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on Being Wrong by Evan Posey</title>
		<link>http://www.discerningchurch.org/being-wrong/#comment-118</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Posey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2011 14:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningchurch.org/being-wrong/#comment-118</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Wade,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Interesting post.  I wonder if Schulz thinks she is &quot;wright&quot; about her assessment?  Although it is beneficial to think about one&#039;s attitude in communicating absolute, objective truth (1 Peter 3:15-17), Schulz claims touch issues much deeper.  Here are a few questions that came to my mind as I listened to her presentation:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ol&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;How does she explain a correspondence view of truth (i.e. something is true when it corresponds to reality) ?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;When we realize we are wrong, aren&#039;t we also affirming the right by negation?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;How does one know something is wrong, unless there is an objective right by which to compare it&#039;s &quot;wrongness&quot;? (i.e. Who is morally better, Hitler or Mother Teresa)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;If Schulz claims are &quot;right&quot;, then how does the Christian trust the Internal Guide (The Holy Spirit)  that leads us into truth?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Obviously these are questions rhetorical.  I use them to emphasize an underlying philosophical assumption that even Schulz commits to.  These philosophical issues go unanswered, which is a tragedy because they are the philosophical assumptions that under gird Jesus&#039; own words.  It&#039;s funny that Schulz uses the &quot;road runner&quot; analogy to support her initial claim.  Philosophers also use this example as an analogy for the fallacy that Schulz commits.  Its called the suicide or &quot;roadrunner&quot; tactic.  This simply means that one only needs to apply Schulz&#039;s claims to themselves to see whether or not they hold up.  For example, Schulz claims that we can not know reality, and yet this is a metaphysical interpretation of reality, therefore we should not trust her own claim.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Check out what God&#039;s word says about truth:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;John 17:17; John 16:3; John 8:32; Titus 1:14; John 14:6; etc.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It appears as if the writers of Scripture view truth in the objective sense.  That is to say, the truth is true for everyone, at every time.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So, in the attempt to keep this post brief, I would offer the following thoughts.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ol&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;There is truth (the right) and all opposed to the right is the wrong. (Laws of Non Contradiction, Identity, and Excluded Middle)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;We can know the truth even if by doing so apophatically (by negation or realizing we are wrong).&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;p&gt;Knowing, and communicating the truth (The Gospel) is the call of the disciple of Jesus, but doing so with gentleness and respect. (1 Peter 3:15-17).  This may satisfy Schulz astute observations regarding emotional aspect of being &quot;right&quot; or &quot;wrong&quot;.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ol&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Anyway, maybe I&#039;m wrong?  The question is, where does the evidence lead?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What are your thoughts brother?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Ev&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wade,</p>

<p>Interesting post.  I wonder if Schulz thinks she is &#8220;wright&#8221; about her assessment?  Although it is beneficial to think about one&#8217;s attitude in communicating absolute, objective truth (1 Peter 3:15-17), Schulz claims touch issues much deeper.  Here are a few questions that came to my mind as I listened to her presentation:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>How does she explain a correspondence view of truth (i.e. something is true when it corresponds to reality) ?</p></li>
<li><p>When we realize we are wrong, aren&#8217;t we also affirming the right by negation?</p></li>
<li><p>How does one know something is wrong, unless there is an objective right by which to compare it&#8217;s &#8220;wrongness&#8221;? (i.e. Who is morally better, Hitler or Mother Teresa)</p></li>
<li><p>If Schulz claims are &#8220;right&#8221;, then how does the Christian trust the Internal Guide (The Holy Spirit)  that leads us into truth?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Obviously these are questions rhetorical.  I use them to emphasize an underlying philosophical assumption that even Schulz commits to.  These philosophical issues go unanswered, which is a tragedy because they are the philosophical assumptions that under gird Jesus&#8217; own words.  It&#8217;s funny that Schulz uses the &#8220;road runner&#8221; analogy to support her initial claim.  Philosophers also use this example as an analogy for the fallacy that Schulz commits.  Its called the suicide or &#8220;roadrunner&#8221; tactic.  This simply means that one only needs to apply Schulz&#8217;s claims to themselves to see whether or not they hold up.  For example, Schulz claims that we can not know reality, and yet this is a metaphysical interpretation of reality, therefore we should not trust her own claim.</p>

<p>Check out what God&#8217;s word says about truth:</p>

<p>John 17:17; John 16:3; John 8:32; Titus 1:14; John 14:6; etc.</p>

<p>It appears as if the writers of Scripture view truth in the objective sense.  That is to say, the truth is true for everyone, at every time.</p>

<p>So, in the attempt to keep this post brief, I would offer the following thoughts.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>There is truth (the right) and all opposed to the right is the wrong. (Laws of Non Contradiction, Identity, and Excluded Middle)</p></li>
<li><p>We can know the truth even if by doing so apophatically (by negation or realizing we are wrong).</p></li>
<li><p>Knowing, and communicating the truth (The Gospel) is the call of the disciple of Jesus, but doing so with gentleness and respect. (1 Peter 3:15-17).  This may satisfy Schulz astute observations regarding emotional aspect of being &#8220;right&#8221; or &#8220;wrong&#8221;.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Anyway, maybe I&#8217;m wrong?  The question is, where does the evidence lead?</p>

<p>What are your thoughts brother?</p>

<p>Ev</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Organic Response by matt</title>
		<link>http://www.discerningchurch.org/organic-response/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.discerningchurch.com/organic-response/#comment-17</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;True that!  It was a memorable afternoon, I hope the trend continues.  I believe things like this happen as the result of a broadened view of who our neighbors are and an obedience to love them in a visible way, all prompted by the creative work of the Holy Spirit.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True that!  It was a memorable afternoon, I hope the trend continues.  I believe things like this happen as the result of a broadened view of who our neighbors are and an obedience to love them in a visible way, all prompted by the creative work of the Holy Spirit.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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